Jennifer Tong
Dive into the dynamic realm of filmmaking with the latest episode of Behind the Scenes by Set Tracker! Actress Jennifer Tong, celebrated for her recent starring role in Netflix's 'Fakes,' engages in an in-depth conversation with host Kyle McCachen.
Join us as Jennifer speaks about the challenges of managing time pressures on set and provides insights into the fast-paced world of TV production. Jennifer opens up about her commitment to creating films that echo current cultural movements.
Dive into the dynamic realm of filmmaking with the latest episode of Behind the Scenes by Set Tracker! Actress Jennifer Tong, celebrated for her recent starring role in Netflix's 'Fakes,' engages in an in-depth conversation with host Kyle McCachen.
Join us as Jennifer speaks about the challenges of managing time pressures on set and provides insights into the fast-paced world of TV production. Jennifer opens up about her commitment to creating films that echo current cultural movements.
In this candid exploration of the industry, Jennifer and Kyle discuss the delicate dance between authenticity and the demands of satisfying film and TV studio executives. Join us for an inspiring conversation that goes beyond the screen as we uncover the nuances of Jennifer Tong's journey.
Behind the Scenes by Set Tracker isn't just a podcast; Set Tracker is also a film and TV app. The app helps solve problems on set with communication tools and up-to-date scripts and schedules. Our mission is to help filmmakers save time all over the world. Subscribe on Spotify, share the love of film, and connect with us on social media @SetTracker, @_jentong, and @stokeshow to stay updated on all things cinematic. Immerse yourself in the magic where creativity meets the big screen!
Transcript below.
SET TRACKER
Today, on Behind the Scenes, we have actress JENNIFER TONG, star of Netflix's ‘Fakes’. Born on the West Coast she is presently acting and involved in various theater companies and Jen and I discuss how to navigate the incredible time pressure as a film actors, how to avoid crashing after wrapping a big project and the need to express your own honest opinions even when working in Hollywood. Thank you for being here.
JENNIFER TONG
Of course, thanks for having me.
SET TRACKER
So, right off the top, you were saying just now that you're kind of like a kid, like acting and playing make believe for your job. How does that make you feel about being both a professional, and a creative?
JENNIFER TONG
Oh, I'm eternally grateful because, you know, sometimes I forget that not everyone gets to play for a living. It reality checks me because I live in this bubble where I'm surrounded by different artists, all pursuing our passion for our career. Even though it can be hard sometimes, it's such a privilege. So, when the weather's right, I teach improv classes to first-time improvisers. Seeing the joy sparked in class, them being able to be silly without the constraints of what being an adult means is so refreshing. It makes me realize that not everyone gets to do that every day for their job.
SET TRACKER
Absolutely. In film, too, it's like, wow, we're lucky. It makes me think about being an adult, whatever that means, you know?
JENNIFER TONG
Totally.
SET TRACKER
When you're an actor, it's like you're trying not to be an adult in a sense. You're playing, you know? When I was in an acting class, someone asked, "Do you have anybody that you really tell the truth to, someone you're not trying to hide from?" It got me thinking. I realized, yeah, my brother, I never try to posture or pretend I'm too cool with him. But with a lot of other people, we have these barriers. In acting, is it true that you're trying to get rid of those barriers, be connected to whatever emotions are just coming up?
JENNIFER TONG
I think it depends. You know, there are characters where that is their true self, they don't have a filter, and they're more willing to share their true selves. But I find that most characters, most characters that I've played, have an inner world and an outer world. It's about who you let into your inner world and who is still on the outside.
SET TRACKER
Right. So when you're thinking about a character, when you're doing background, you're thinking about who does this character let in? They keep their posture up with some people.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, like, who sees the real me, the character me? And who am I still trying to prove something to or impress?
SET TRACKER
Mm-hmm. So you make a note in the script, like, "This person I'm trying to impress?"
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, I mean, it depends. If I'm working on a project for a couple of months, you already know because you've been in rehearsals or shooting for weeks. You don't have to notate on the script every day. But if I get an audition, and I'm doing script work on the scenes they've given me, yeah, that's something I keep in mind. Part of my process is writing down the relationship I have with each character in the scene or the moment before.
SET TRACKER
So you write down the relationships with these characters on an audition, even if you don't know sometimes?
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah. Depending on the project, some are more guarded. I've had ones where they send sides like secret spy shit, and you can't print or save them. But for auditions, I might make it up if I don't know.
SET TRACKER
What did we give you for Bad Press?
JENNIFER TONG
I think you gave me the whole feature. I got the full script.
SET TRACKER
You're not supposed to, and I can't remember.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, I think you gave me the full script and the audition sides, right?
SET TRACKER
Mm-hmm. Did you read the whole script?
JENNIFER TONG
You did read, I think. Yeah, I read through the whole script. Yeah.
SET TRACKER
There's a secretive nature to people's scripts, and every creative is different, every showrunner has a different need of security.
JENNIFER TONG
Oh, my gosh, I've met people who, you know, they'll be like, "Yeah, I'm working on this script," and I'll just be like, "Oh, cool. What's it about?" Just trying to make conversation. They're like, "Oh, like, I don't think I should talk about it. You know, I want to keep that close to my heart," which is, you know, respect. I think that, in this industry, to connect and make connections and build community, you never know who's going to be able to help you along. But I also get it, like, maybe they've been burned before, and someone has, like, stolen their idea or something. So...
SET TRACKER
Yeah, I mean, this is maybe not related, but I heard that to trust somebody is a risk. And when you get wisdom as you get older, it's because you have been burned, you've been hurt, but you're brave to continue to try and trust people. That's what bravery is. And early on, if you don't know you can be burned, then you're just naive. So I think that's, yeah, that's definitely something, like, how much do you share about whatever projects you have?
JENNIFER TONG
Who do you share it with?
SET TRACKER
With people you don't want to get their hopes up. If it doesn't go ahead, and you look like an idiot, you need to share certain things with other people to connect, to certain people. Like, "I love that script" or "I love that idea." Right. So that's probably, as an actress, you probably get people pitching you ideas a fair bit, right?
JENNIFER TONG
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I've built enough community in Vancouver where I have a lot of filmmaker friends who are constantly doing new stuff and ask me to read their scripts or to read for a role or just trying to test out the waters. Yeah, I recently did a table read for a feature that a couple of friends have been writing for two years, and it was just so nice to have everyone get together and share their thoughts and feedback on the script. And I could tell that my friends who wrote the thing really appreciated it and were so happy to see how people responded to their story.
SET TRACKER
Yeah. Now that's if you can get people to read your script. Like my brother, on his own, set up a table read at a library. Mm-hmm. Before it, it was a different version, but it closed a lot of stuff. I just can't believe that he went and got all these people to do it, and they did it, and it was great. It's so exciting to see your work actually get out there. Mm-hmm. Another funny part about our jobs is you make the movie or they make the TV show, or you write the script even, and then it's like, who's going to look at this? I know. I know. The show's done. Sometimes you just want to do...
JENNIFER TONG
Yes, of course. And you want eyes on it, and you want people to watch it.
SET TRACKER
Yeah. And that's so, like, what's that like for you? Like, let's take, like, when Netflix's face came out, like, you're like, "Okay, this is great. Now you go into the show, in fact has marketing events for you and all kinds of... Right? Mm-hmm.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah. I mean, I think there is so much content these days, and with Fakes, it was, you know, a lower budget, kind of smaller scale Canadian production. It was made during the pandemic when we were still COVID testing and we were still having to wear masks. A lot of things were selective. And I think that it's just, what's the word? It's so not concentrated, but there's just, yeah, there's a lot of content out there. So how do you make your project stand out?
SET TRACKER
What is it? How do you do that? Even on screenwriting Twitter, I follow that. There's people who talk about, you know, like, every project you can be good technically, project needed technically. But if it's not saying something about the world, that kind of needs to be centered on a topic. What is your script? You're just having more drama between actors. My character wants something. But what makes it interesting is when he's, when it connects to his culture or a greater thing. You know, like, right now, I don't know where you create film about that made me feel like, "Wow, I really want to see that." Because it's happening right now.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah. But no, I think I agree with you because things are moving so fast, and people don't have a long attention span, right? So they want to see stuff that's relevant. They want to see stuff that they can relate to right now, that's poignant right now. But, you know, production takes time. And so how are projects supposed to predict what's going to happen in a couple of months or a year when their project is actually going to be shown to the world?
SET TRACKER
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Well, like, how do you think, like, it takes forever to make something? How do you get people to, like, really connect with something? But you hope that once, you know, sometimes you're like, "We did that." Yeah, you still have to tell. I know, I know. And then feedback comes, and then there's, like, a process, right? Yeah. And how do you think about marketing as an actor? Mm. Because some people are like, "Oh, that's the business side."
JENNIFER TONG
And it is. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of the more business side that I don't like. That's not the reason why I came into acting. Right. So and that's not my forte, but I think more and more I've been hearing that it's almost like you, me, Jennifer Tong as a person, as the actor, or as the Lee Jennifer Tong Chang as the actor, and both have to kind of coexist harmoniously in terms of, like, your social media presence. How you present yourself to the world is people are starting to look at that. Casting is starting to look at that, and producers and stuff like that.
SET TRACKER
You have to be honest about what you believe and who you are. The more people that do that, it will probably be better. That being said, if you're on a big Apple show, and there's $100 million at stake, and you don't know if somebody has a political opinion when you might be running the show, are you going to take that risk? I think a lot of people have that question these days. On the last interview, Andy Hodgson, a producer, cinematographer, mentioned creating a persona for himself on social media, allowing him to separate his work from himself. It's like saying, "Judge this work, but know that I'm still a good person even if it didn't do well." I found it interesting because he deliberately curates an image on his social media to distinguish it from his personal life.
JENNIFER TONG
It's almost like trying to sell not only your work but also yourself as a person. As an actor, it's prevalent because we've seen projects with issues due to the cast's bad history or unfavorable stances on world issues. But it feels dystopian, like my personality and values now have to cater to whoever gives me the next job.
SET TRACKER
So it's always about protection, not showing and hiding. Then you don't express what you truly believe.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, but it's to the detriment of yourself. You feel like you're not being your true self, and that can hurt your soul.
SET TRACKER
It definitely can. If you start lying a little to get ahead, you may forget to be honest as you climb higher. It's a slippery slope of losing who you are, lying for success.
SET TRACKER
It's funny because in job interviews, I was just telling somebody, "Don't tell them everything about yourself. Express your interest in the job and make them feel important."
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, selective truth.
SET TRACKER
I'm really backing up on it though...
JENNIFER TONG
No. I know what you mean.
SET TRACKER
There's a space for it. I also think that's the same with holding on to some opinions. Being careful when expressing political views online, knowing there's a big audience and understanding that culture shifts. How is that going to affect me?
JENNIFER TONG
Sure. Yeah.
SET TRACKER
How do you think about the project from a marketing point of view?
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, I'm in an interesting point in my career. I just had a meeting with my team two days ago, talking about the kind of projects we want to pursue. I feel like I can be a bit selective. If there's something I really disagree with or a network I don't want to work with due to promoting a certain lifestyle, I feel comfortable cutting off that arm or leg. Still open to opportunities that come to me. I guess what I'm trying to say is, there are some blatant things I won't touch. If it's detrimental to my career, so be it. But doing something that goes against my values would really hurt me internally. I won't compromise on that. If there's a chance for conversation or understanding, I'm open to it. Shutting people out completely isn't the way to create change or spread opinions. There has to be an open dialog.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, that's the smartest thing. Discuss and connect instead of disengage. It's about helping others understand your perspective and vice versa. As an actor, turning down every controversial role might mean missing opportunities to work on impactful projects. You might lose the chance to be part of movies that explore complex characters on both sides, like stories about the Holocaust or characters like Walter White in Breaking Bad.
JENNIFER TONG
You never know where an opportunity will lead or how it will grow. But, you know, it's easier said than done. I've definitely been emotional in debates and discussions. Keeping an open mind is easier said than done.
SET TRACKER
And it's easier said than done to speak your opinion. I was making political commentary a couple of years ago, being clever, and then I got hired for an Apple show the next day. I realized I had to stop.
JENNIFER TONG
It's hard because so much in this industry is out of our control. It's not always a meritocracy. Sometimes you have to do a bit of people pleasing and ass kissing, which sucks. Unfortunately, as of right now, that's just how the industry works.
SET TRACKER
People might teach you more if they think you're open to learning. It's a tough balance between pursuing your ideals and the reality of needing a job. There are certain projects you won't do, and that's fine. You have to know where you draw the line. For example, someone in film school suggested Adult Entertainment for good money, but I knew it wasn't for me (laughs).
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, it's great for him, but it's just not something I feel comfortable doing.
SET TRACKER
Right. It's about being open to various projects while having a goal in mind. There's a direction you lean towards, but it doesn't mean you won't do other things that eventually contribute to reaching your ultimate goals.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah. And I think right now I'm like, open to a bunch of different types of projects, but there is, you know, a goal in mind, a way that I'm leaning of like the ultimate kind of types of projects that I want to work on. But that doesn't mean that I'm not going to do all this other stuff that is eventually going to help me get to where I want to go.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, what are the types that you get? Because I really like the role that I asked you before. You in your personality. Do you know what roles you get all the time.
JENNIFER TONG
Oh, yeah. I mean, I was just talking to my team about it, right? So I think that ultimately I want to do stuff that can change opinions and impact people's way of thinking. I think I also have a soft spot for comedy as well. So. And I don't think that doing a comedy isn't necessarily, you know, shallow and doesn't have anything to say. Usually comedies like, ah, it's kind of like a Spoonful of Medicine or sugar or whatever the metaphor is. You know.
SET TRACKER
I know a lot of quotes about what comedy is politically like. It's you can get comedy gets under the door while politics is fumbling at the handle.
JENNIFER TONG
Yes, I love that. Yeah. That sneakily getting itself in there by making you laugh and it's, you know, making you comfortable and stuff. But ultimately, yeah, something that says something I love, I would love, you know, fakes was definitely a dream project of mine. So when I did that, I was kind of like, Ooh, what's next? Like, what's something else I want to accomplish that I haven't done before?
JENNIFER TONG
And I was like, I would love to do something with action or, you know, I, I've done Muay Thai for the past couple of years, so like, something to, like, flex that skill off. Yeah. Flex.
SET TRACKER
So, do you shoot guns.
JENNIFER TONG
No, but I would love to learn, you know, how to shoot.
SET TRACKER
Guns shooting range.
JENNIFER TONG
I mean, yeah I'm in.
JENNIFER TONG
I mean, I am very much like, want to try everything, so yes to Action, maybe even like, I don't know, like a bridgerton esque kind of thing.
SET TRACKER
What's that show?
JENNIFER TONG
You don't even know what that is? Ok. It's fine. (Laughs) No judgment. It's just a Netflix show. It's kind of, um. It's kind of like Pride and Prejudice, sexy, like teen Buffy.
SET TRACKER
I’ll check it out. It sounds good. So what did your parents think of your choice to be an actor when you were telling them or when you were starting?
JENNIFER TONG
Me and my sister were raised by my mom, single mom working like three part time jobs. And, you know, she sacrificed a lot for us. And so I graduated high school. I was very much I had applied to the SFA communications program because everyone had kind of like urged me to do that because, you know, they were like, “you're outgoing, you're sociable, you're great with people, like this is something you should do.” So I applied for this, a few communications program and I got in, but I had also, you know, auditioned for the acting program at Capilano University.
Ultimately, I decided to do the communications program and so paid my deposit, went to the info session with my mom. And, you know, I'm like fully committed to start this in a month or two or whatever. But in the info session I just like was listening to the kind of stuff I would be doing in the next four years. And I was like. “Oh, hell.” Like, I can't. I don't want this to be my next four years. And so on the car ride back, I'm just like sobbing my eyes out and like I turn to my mom and I'm like, difficult. I think I have to, give acting a try. I just think I just got to at least try and if I hate it or if it doesn't work out, I can always come back and do communications. And my mom just looked at me and she was like, “I don't like it. But I understand.” And so I ditched the deposit at S.F. you and I went to CAP FILM and did the three year acting program there, and it was the best decision I ever made.
SET TRACKER
And it's so crazy. Yeah. Now, like, you know, you think about how far you come when you've starred in a Netflix show.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's, it's definitely wild to think about and I think some like as an actor, the career is very much up and down and it's very rollercoaster. Always kind of if you are constantly working at your craft and you're constantly trying and really dedicated, I think you know the possible odds are endless. And if you've got a good team that supports you, like you're going to be able to keep rising. And I have faith in that. And I'm excited to see what's next.
SET TRACKER
That's crazy. That's a great story.
JENNIFER TONG
I know sometimes I'm wondering, like, what is a corporate job like? Jen Look like does she live in Maine? Silver lake? Is Jen dating like, a tech, bro?
SET TRACKER
I heard somebody else say this, but I think every now and then, maybe we should all do a boring 9 to 5 job. Maybe we should all go in and you stock shelves or something. Every now and then when I'm like, “Oh man, this film is so difficult.” Or “This film fell apart.” Or “We were so close here.” And then that didn't happen. Or when we're actually filming something and you're going and then two days before you get sleep, you know, and I imagine forgetting about all that stress. Because film is mad. I understand why people have a job landscaping.
JENNIFER TONG
Oh, my God, Yes.
SET TRACKER
When I was 17, I did construction. I get that. I know people who do regular jobs. I know somebody who is a plumber who is very happy makes good money has a nice family and I really I get it. Of course I say that now. But I would never do anything else but film.
JENNIFER TONG
That's the thing because I too I'm like I sometimes envy the people with like a 9 to 5 who can just leave all their work at the office. And then they have weeknights and weekends are just completely their own. I think in this industry we're constantly thinking about the industry and our jobs and stuff. It doesn't really ever turn off.
SET TRACKER
When you're on set, like when you're on set and you have to go to work. You don't have 9 to 5 hours. No. You have that massive scene coming up. So you can’t sleep.
JENNIFER TONG
Literally when we were shooting fakes I would be out of the house from, I don't know, 5 a.m. until 11 p.m. or 10 p.m.. And then I would get home and I would pop a melatonin, say hi to my boyfriend and learn my lines for the next day, sleep, and do it all over again. And that just the life and I wouldn't trade it for anything else but it's because and I think that's when I know that I like, really love what I'm doing because if I say that to someone and they're think, “That is frickin fucked up,’ you know what I mean? But for me, I'm like, “That's so exciting and I love it" and it's so fun and it's what I want to be doing.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, it's pretty wild. It's lucky. But when I get the rare opportunity to direct something that. That's more than, like, a day shoot, I will drop 10 pounds. Because you're just going and going.
JENNIFER TONG
You're just nonstop.
SET TRACKER
And my pal is a director who did the movie “Influencer” shout out to Kurt Harder. He says that after you finish shooting and you got the film in the can, there's always a crash because you're so high filming that you have to crash.
JENNIFER TONG
Oh yeah.
SET TRACKER
Like as soon as you're down and you got to do post and there is so much to deal with in post-production. And he's like, “I usually have a downer episode.” And I for sure understand that crash.
JENNIFER TONG
So the down happens in between, like after you wrap?
SET TRACKER
You are still going hard in post. But I think that just directing is such a high for a lot of directors and maybe I think it's different thing for Kurt and for myself. I've been involved in like spending my own money. Probably what I was thinking too, it is like producing and directing gives you a crash when you are done.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah.
SET TRACKER
As well. This project that he did recently, he raised the money for it. He wrote it and he directed it. So then I think the crash is: “how is this going to shape up?” And when you're directing, especially for Kurt, he was all over the place for 30 days. 40 days. He was so high for so long. So that crash is pretty harsh after, but is it typical? Do you have a little bit of a crash when you wrap?
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, I think the crash is both physical as well as, like, mental because you're just like running on adrenaline for, you know, three months straight and then suddenly you're like, Whoa, I don't have to be anywhere at 5 a.m. tomorrow. Nothing I have to do. Like, I get to choose what to wear. Like, you know, it's kind of like, Oh, but it's exciting. And you got to find that balance, which is difficult.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, that's the thing I think about it is as your career, there's stories of really successful people who like Will Smith even or Johnny Depp in the last couple of years. These are the top. In the industry start to see like the cracks. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that made me stress out to the point that Will Smith seem to have gone through that, you know, like his problems are being aired publicly and it must be so difficult because he's so famous. I think for a while all of us assumed that he was the most successful actor ever. I think there's a shift about like star power in Hollywood. Look at Tom Holland who talks about getting off of social media and Hollywood being too much. I believe there's a little shift happening with the expansion of international movies as well, where the star appeal is shifting and people are starting to take mental health issues seriously. Like in Vancouver we used to shoot 12 hour days or each shoot 12 hour days. They still do, but we used to go long all the time.
JENNIFER TONG
I think COVID really helped with that. Like when, you know, the pandemic hit and there were all these new rules they did talk a lot about we got to like shorten those hours and stuff. But I don't know studios, they're kind of like to get the shot. I feel like they're willing to go overtime. And I was sometimes, some studios and stuff want to shoot long days.
SET TRACKER
It’s directors. And all directors would cut off their arm for another shot.
JENNIFER TONG
Yes, exactly.
SET TRACKER
So they're the ones that always want to get more shots.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah. And then, you know, I've been on set where it's like the fight is the tension because it's like the director is like, we need to get this last shot. None of this makes sense without it. And the producers are like, “No, you literally have one minute.”
SET TRACKER
Now I actually know that feeling of like you need this shot or else this will not cut together.
JENNIFER TONG
Exactly.
SET TRACKER
And I've also been the guy who's had to shut down. Yeah, but those shows, when I've said that it was on like really high end. Actually, there's one time I was on a show where I kind of screwed up and I told the AD, “Now your calculations are off”, and our director was standing right there. I said “we don't have 40 minutes, we have ten more minutes. We have child actor here.”
JENNIFER TONG
And they've got to pumpkin.
SET TRACKER
Exactly. Like you cannot change that rule.
JENNIFER TONG
Yeah, I mean it's about yeah it's efficiency in time. That's where you're 100%. Pretty much 100% always running late on a production. Like I. I don't think I've ever been on a production. We're like, Oh, we have lots of time.
SET TRACKER
Totally.
JENNIFER TONG
Like, damn, like, everybody take an extra like our lunch break. Like, that's I don't think that has ever happened to me.
SET TRACKER
What's it like when you have to, like, hurry up and wait? Like when they're like, “Go to your trailer and then you go in a trailer and wait.”
JENNIFER TONG
Literally when you go on set they got everything timed out. For you as an actor, they've got everything timed to the minute. So it's like you have this time to this time to have breakfast and then we're going to get you to hair makeup at 1023. And by 1057 you're going to be done hair and makeup, and we're going to travel you to set for like 1101.
JENNIFER TONG
And they they've blocked it out so, so well. And but that's like best case scenario, right? Like, this is their dream, their ideal. But, you know, there's so many moving parts on a set that like the ideal usually doesn't happen because there's just so much going on all the time. And so often instead of traveling to set, they'll send me back to my trailer and, you know, they've rushed me through hair and makeup because they've only allotted this amount of time because they're hoping that we'll get to shoot at 1115.
JENNIFER TONG
But camera, something's going on with the camera. And like, you know, this person's missing or like the director wants to make a change or whatever. And so I'm waiting in my trailer until like 12 p.m. or whatever or, you know, I've taken naps in between hair and makeup to traveling the set. I've had friends say that they get all done like they're wearing a frickin long ball gown.
They've got their, like, hair and makeup done. They're in the trailer for like 8 hours. The end of the day around, they're not used at all. They're scenes cut there. Yeah. So it's like.
SET TRACKER
Oh, that's wild. I do like, we always try to make sure we don't hold somebody for 6 hours wrap, but it happens.
JENNIFER TONG
And it's just there's so many moving parts.
SET TRACKER
The reason we do that is cause like when, when I was in the production role and we would have that kind of thing happen, it's like it's better to keep them there just in case that director needs them back and they're going to get paid.
JENNIFER TONG
So but now somehow costs the production more money ?
SET TRACKER
Yeah, but it's necessary.
JENNIFER TONG
Just in case.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, it's weird, but you do it because you don't want a situation where your leads actors have to switch or the director wants to bring up a shot. We worry about turnarounds and stuff. So when it comes to it, number eight or ten or whatever, you're just like, just hold them here. Yeah. It's like and that sucks. The worst is when you hold them and then you don't need them at all.
JENNIFER TONG
I mean, I think as an actor, as, you know, a working actor, it's kind of like, Oh, if you're not on an episodic rate, which is when you get paid just kind of like a flat amount per episode. So usually that happens for series regulars like for Face Me and Amelia, we were on episodic raid, so it didn't matter how long we were on set for, how many days we were called for. So they worked us to the bone. No, but you know, the show very much revolved around our character, so we were pretty much in every scene, blah, blah, blah. But like, if you're just a day call or if you're going like by day rate, like it's some actors are happy to just get hair and makeup and chill in their trailer for 8 hours, get paid their thousand dollars or whatever and peace you know so it depends but it still is kind of like.
SET TRACKER
It's a weird thing like, getting the guy into makeup. He was supposed to have been shot in a comedy, and so he's like getting a little get blown quick. I mean, like our lead actor had to get on the private plane and they were out early. So we're like, Bring this scene up with you that's going to play like we're running out of daylight or something.
SET TRACKER
So there is like three or four people putting blood on properly, like make up artists. Then, we're running out of time. And we all jumped into a golf cart that I was in the golf kart as well with three makeup artists.
JENNIFER TONG
They were doing it as you were driving?
SET TRACKER
Cleaning the blood off of them.
JENNIFER TONG
I mean, that's the thing. Also, like specialty makeup and like, props to all the like SFX makeup artists out there. I did an episode of like Fire Country where I was messed up and it took like, like every day I was in the chair for maybe like 4 hours, 3 hours and stuff because there's like, put on and then there's also like removal too. So, you know, the hair and makeup people are, they're like, like if you're shooting from top of day to end the day, like for like 14 hours, let's say they're there for 16 hours or 17.
SET TRACKER
Transport does like 18hrs.
JENNIFER TONG
You know. Yeah, but they do get to nap in between.
SET TRACKER
Yeah, this is true.
JENNIFER TONG
Me I sleep soundly in my trailer.
SET TRACKER
I'm like, I've had a few naps. Okay, so that's really awesome. I would just like to ask you a question about can you share? I have a story about the first day on set. Using a smoke machine gun and I just like completely blacked out the set, the monitors are black and you can see actors coughing and I was so embarrassing because everybody sees you on set. Do you have any story you can share like that?
JENNIFER TONG
An issue? I'm trying to think, oh.
SET TRACKER
Too much fresh air? I don't know…
JENNIFER TONG
I mean, there's the I mean, there is one day where I'm wearing this like, white ass blazer. It is like pristine. And we're obviously already running behind. And I'm like, having my second coffee of the day and I'm like, trying to drink this coffee and like, the lid wasn't put on properly or something. And so it just spilled all over the front of my like white blazer.
JENNIFER TONG
And they had already set up the shot. We had already done blocking and we were about to rehearse and I just tried to take a sip of my coffee and it was just like it was very much of it. And they had.
SET TRACKER
A bunch of coffee all over everything.
JENNIFER TONG
And so it was all of a sudden it was like code red, like people were literally texting code red to the producers. I was like, like, do we not have like a duplicate?
SET TRACKER
Do we not have like a back up?
JENNIFER TONG
Second white blazer? And so it was just like, yeah, sometimes you don't have duplicates. And so they had like costume come from circus to set with like they're like still like steam cleaner. And they were like trying to get this and like, you know, I heard about that for like weeks after.
SET TRACKER
You need a plastic bib. Well thank you so much. Like, this was been an amazing chat. I knew we'd be able to just chill and chat about things and. Yeah, I was. I'm so thankful that you could come.
And our this interview series is supposed to shine a spotlight on Canadian talent and talented people, and it's brought to you by Set Tracker, where that's our goal is to hopefully inspire people to be bold in their careers and help people make films.
JEN
Oh yeah. Thanks so much. That was excellent.
Andy Hodgson
Join us on an illuminating journey through the lens of cinematography as Andy Hodgson, a seasoned Cinematographer and Producer with over 150 credits on IMDb, sits down with host Kyle McCachen of Set Tracker. Together, they delve into the ever-evolving world of filmmaking, exploring the intersection of A.I., artistry, technology, and career growth.
Join us on an illuminating journey through the lens of cinematography as Andy Hodgson, a seasoned Cinematographer and Producer with over 150 credits on IMDb, sits down with host Kyle McCachen of Set Tracker. Together, they delve into the ever-evolving world of filmmaking, exploring the intersection of A.I., artistry, technology, and career growth.
In this episode, Andy and Kyle explore the captivating realm of Artificial Intelligence in film. Discover how A.I. is reshaping the cinematic landscape as a producer and accept that it is here to stay. Gain insights into staying ahead in the industry, with Andy sharing his wealth of experience and offering valuable advice on promoting your career as a visual artist.
Behind the Scenes by Set Tracker is not just a podcast; it's a rendezvous with the minds shaping the future of filmmaking. We are here to shine a light on talent in the industry and hope to inspire others to be bold in their film and TV careers. Don't miss out on the latest episodes. Subscribe on Spotify and share the love of film. Connect with us on social media @SetTracker, @andhod23, and @stokeshow to join the conversation and stay updated on all things cinematic.
Transcript below.
Set Tacker Today, I'm thrilled to introduce our guest. Your experience, Andy, with cinematography and the entire camera department is impressive. I love it. It includes darker movies like thrillers and also some comedies, like the very first Letterkenny videos. Thank you for joining me.
Andy Thank you for having me, Kyle.
Set Tacker So to start, I'd like to mention this interview is brought to you by Set Tracker, where I hope our discussion can shine a light on filmmakers and possibly inspire others to be bold in pursuing their creative aspirations. Now, to kick things off, I'd like to ask you if you thought that your career would turn out this way when you started?
Moreover, did you envision reaching that? Did you envision reaching the heights you have where you've worked with some of Canada's top actors?
Andy Man That's a good question because I had to. I was never really intrigued with film as as I grew up as a young kid. I grew up in Central America with no television, so it wasn't like movies or, you know, cartoons or things like that were kind of in my presence as an early age. But I sort of fell in love with the arts when I landed in Vancouver and started going to Capilano Film School. Did two years there in Graduate. And then I found this sort of this I my I just kind of fell in love with lighting and and, you know, framing and what you could do with the camera and movement.
So that's kind of where I discovered the passion for filmmaking and specifically cinematography.
Set Tacker And that's amazing. I went to cap, too, and I'm the same way. I didn't initially think I was going to be a filmmaker. I was snowboarding and then I went to film school and I fell in love with it when I was about 20, I had been filming, but I didn't fall in love until I was a young adult.
So your online portfolio is great and I think you've got a very unique style comedians, singers, filmmakers. I think they all have this challenge of how do they market themselves when they're trying to be a professional and be creative. Do you how does this challenge how does this how do you feel about this challenge in your career? Oh, the creativity.
Andy That's one of the toughest, because I think it's you know, you're putting out work that speaks for yourself and it's your message and it's things that you love and and are kind of holding the air to. And then for people to kind of take a look at and judge or like or dislike. You know, so I think in a way there's got to be a bit of a disconnect to the art at times where you sort of release it to the to the world.
And that's sort of what all you could do to it, because then it sort of has a leg, it's got its own legs. And I think creatively it's tough. It's, you know, you've got to stay relevant, you got to stay current. I mean, you and I come from the non Instagram game, the you know, the the TikTok, the YouTube.
And so I think it's kind of like learning a little bit of what sort of the younger generation is doing and also seeing what the older generation has been up to and being kind of stuck in the middle and playing ball with both. I think that's really important to stay relevant and current.
Set Tacker You know, you're so good. Like I think you had such a great style. That was how I recognized you before We met was from your great photos and your image of yourself to you've put really great photography of yourself on there with. To me, it jumps out as being somebody who is an artist.
How do you think about how do you think about creating that persona?
Andy Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I, I kind of separated myself a little bit. I like to dabble in a little bit of everything. And as you can see, some of those photos are definitely high end photos, you know, taken time modeling photos. And so I think for everything that I do, it kind of challenges me.
And I've learned a lot through even those photos of the crazy haircuts and some of the modeling photos of like being in front of the camera because I'm always behind the camera. So I now feel what an actor feels. I'm now you know, being lit. I'm now being told I'm now being told to direct. So even though some friends of mine are like, Well, that's so outrageous, I'm like, But this is me.
Like, I like to explore a little bit of everything. I'm not shy to to play within the medium. And I think that's a good way to separate myself. You know, you see other cinematographers or producers, they kind of just post their movies or things, you know, maybe you don't see their faces on there. But I think for me, it's relationship building.
You know, I think it's important for people to see me who for who I am and the style that I bring. And, you know, sometimes it might be intimidating, but at other times it pays off because they're like, Wow. Like, exactly like what you said. Like, you're so cool in your style. And I think it's important for people to see who they want to work with, not just their work of, like, beautiful images.
And I think I bring a unique style with some good flair. And you can tell that through those images. Certainly. Certainly. I think there's a lot of truth to that in how people find us now on Instagram and some producers recently I worked with had to replace a director and I was immediately sending them to Instagram of the director and they were looking at it.
And some of those decisions happened really quick, so you get a snapshot of them. And for me, looking at your Instagram, I thought to myself, I need more pictures of myself there because I do have just my work mostly. Absolutely. And that's also to like your own confidence. Right. And I feel like when people are looking at that, they're not really going to be sort of judging your work for, you know, I think if they can see some sort of human connection, they can see where those images are not coming from.
Right. So and it's bold. It's bold. It's like my haircuts, I would say my work. Yeah. You got to stand out. You got to stand out. And it's a challenge for all creatives to market themselves because a lot of them don't think that they need to be commercially doing marketing and that they're just doing the art, which I kind of understand that argument because it's a balance.
But I do think that it's important to take consideration of like, how are you putting yourself out into the world in this business?
Set Tacker I noticed that you put some 35 millimeter film shots up the other day. Just tell me that's amazing. You still shoot with 35 mil??
Andy Yeah, I'm. I'm bringing it back. I mean, I know there's a couple of guys out there, you know, normally Chase Urban, some guys that have been shooting film for a while, who we kind of came up with in the film game here.
And yeah, man, a couple of years ago I just sort of I just wanted to kind of revert back to the simplicity and to the to sort of the methodical organizational way of like that. You have to shoot film. It's, it's very regiment, it's very militant, It's very you know, you can't just keep rolling. You know, you have to you have to pretty much sink deep and start rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing.
So I like that. I like these sort of slowed down ness that it gives us on set. I think it it makes something very pure as coming from like the film days to digital in the mid 2000s. You know, everybody just kind of was able to shoot. And if you look at today's world, you can pick up a camera, you can pick up your iPhone and shoot.
And it's making us I think it's just making us a lot faster in terms of our image creation. So I think what film does for me, it kind of slows my process down. It it makes me think again, you know, kind of back in the day. So it's been it's been good and it's been good practice as well.
So I've done the last couple of films shot on film. 16 mil, 35 mil. And I feel it's I think I'm going to keep doing it as much as possible because images to me now with digital, they can be so beautiful and so short, but there is nothing better than just to capture something so natural through the the camera and through through film.
And I've always been a cinematographer for who uses a light meter, even though, you know, these new technologies with the waveform, with the all these other exposure sort of information and levels that you can get in the camera, I'm always metering. I think that's kind of my do my old school way of cinematography and I refuse to look at any monitor for exposure and just use the meter.
So I think also that works for me in film because I'm I'm very regiment again and militant about metering everything I'm doing. What are my shadows that what are my highlights. What is that window looking at? What is the you know, the fall off of the wall. So yeah, I think it's it's it's good practice and I was telling my, my loader the other day I had Panavision, I said, you know, this is all good practice to go shoot a feature on film.
So I've been doing a ton of shorts and it's great practice man. And it's bringing me back to, to what's real, I think. Yeah, yeah, certainly I, I saw that and it made me look at my Super eight that I bought, which I never did. And I'm going to buy the film and I have plans now over Christmas to shoot my niece on a skating on lake.
That's beautiful. We've been to before and I'm like, I'm thinking, I know I'm going to see her and I'm going to get some I'm going to make a little 30 second video.
Set Tacker This is a great segway into the question I was gonna ask you about because you mentioned film and digital and how that news is changing.
What are your thoughts on AI? The conversation around it? Is it scary to you that it might replace our our cracks in our career, or are you thinking that it might be like digitization of film from the into the video world where it actually expanded and created more jobs?
Andy Absolutely. I think that's a loaded question. I certainly I mean, to me personally, it I feel it's a tool, something that's going to be helpful, used in the correct way.
You know, I feel that sometimes these new technologies come out in their use incorrectly. We will lose some jobs. I believe. I think we will lose some jobs that we will generate others, whether I don't know what those others are going to be. But just like I remember when digital came out, everybody was like, Oh my God, film is dead, film is dead, and look at film now, like, So I think everybody's always going to want that human experience.
I think air is going to be there to support us and help us. But in the end, you know, kind of going back to what I'm shooting, why I'm shooting film, right, That kind of humanistic experience, will it help my job? I definitely think it does. I mean, I just started messing around with chatGPT for the first time, so I'm kind of integrating myself as well.
I think it's important to kind of stay relevant, but will I let it like drown me in my career? I don't think so. I think I'm going to be able to sustain, even though the technology is really advancing fast, because in other ways, too, as like you mentioned, I'm a cinematographer, but I'm also a producer, so it's really important to as beautiful as those images are, I also need to know the back end because it's a business and I think that's where my strengths come in.
And if I want to come in and start shooting their movies, well, I'll just distribute those movies or I'll try and pivot. So I think it's it's going to be good. Some jobs will be lost, others will be see growth.
Set Tacker Nice. And when you mentioned pivoting, what's your take on how important is it for you specifically to be able to be nimble in your career because you have been a cinematographer, you have directed, you've worked on the camera side and you've produced?
Andy In today's film game. I don't think most of us just do one thing, right? So I think it's important for cinematographers to perhaps learn the back end or producers to learn more on set and sort of branch out because, you know, you're more valuable for the more things you know.
And I think, you know, when I started producing, I was very scared of it because I was just a cinematographer. I knew nothing about it, but I looked at the long term goal and I was like, okay, well now I'm going to be learning about back end. Now I'm going to be dealing with people giving me money. Now I have to get insurance now.
I got to crew up everything that comes with that. And it was very, very scary at first. You know, you're handling people's money. But I think that diversity and the fact that you're able to have those tentacles in different pools is going to be really important. And anybody can make a pretty picture, right, as you can see on Instagram or YouTube for some people's reels or whatnot.
But it's like, how will you survive in the back end? And I think the end is a little bit more as I grow up. Cinematography is always going to be there for me, but I look at it more as a business than in terms of like selling my movies or, you know, film festivals, you know, distribution. So it's you got it.
You should have a bit of a balance out there.
Set Tacker I'd like to ask you what your parents, where did they work when you were growing up and what did they think when you told them what your career plan to be in film?
Andy That's a good one. So long story short, my parents were working in the Middle East before I came to Canada, so I've been in the Middle East for about 10 to 11 years with them and my stepdad is Canadian, so he had to just sit. And I come to that. We come to Vancouver and then I discovered film.
I will say a defining moment in my life in in terms of parents. I had gotten a job when I first moved to Canada at the airport to kind of help me get through through film school. And I remember one day a friend of mine said who was working in film, he said, Andy, do you want a grip on this memo?
There's a memo. I know the key grip I can get you on set, and I'm thinking, This is it. I got to jump. So without telling my folks, without telling anybody, I quit my job at the airport as a screening officer. It was union work. It was getting paid really well. But I quit cold turkey. I didn't even notify the company.
I quit my job at the airport I called them one day pretending I was sick. They thought I was calling in sick and I said, ‘Look, I quit.” And my parents flipped because they were still living in the middle East. So that was a defining moment where my folks were like, What are you doing? Why are you leaving that job? But you know what? I just always have it in me. Like when I jump, I survive.
Like when I jump, I survive and I swim. And it turned out that I went and was gripping on like three of the three or four other shows after that. And then the union came around and we got unionized. And then I was doing the gripping in the union. So yeah, that's definitely a defining moment. And my parents were not too happy about Look at me now.
Set Tacker Okay, that's awesome. That's awesome. And do you think you get more of your personality from your mom or your dad?
Andy I think it's a bit of both. Yeah. I mean, I grew up with my mom. I would see her as a single parent, so definitely her. But now because of a step dad, I do get some for him, but because I've now rediscovered my biological father about ten years ago, we've been really connecting and now I see a lot of me in him, which I'm actually going to go see him in a couple of weeks in Nicaragua.
So I'm excited about that. So it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of the Afro-Latino flavor, you know, a little bit of Central America, a little bit of South America mixed in there. It's nice.
Set Tacker So now when you get jobs, do you go in? Are you getting interviewed every time you get a job or sometimes you just getting hired and somebody says, hey, we're on this show and when you're getting a job, are you interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you?
Andy Yeah, it's a little bit of both, I think. You know, now with 20 years of a footprint here, I do have some loyal directors that like working with me that just kind of come into the blue to shoot their movies. Sometimes I do get interviewed, but I think the body, the body of work kind of speaks for itself.
I less and less get interviewed now. I would say just because a lot of these companies have hired me and I work with a lot of directors, but if they're new directors, then I have to jump in, you know, conversations with the networks. I got to jump in conversations with the director. I haven't landed them all, that's for sure.
I've been interviewed lots and haven't landed them, but that's okay. I think that's just the process of self-discovery and how you can better yourself in the interview process. And it's always good to to ask them questions of like, okay, what is the feel of the movie or what do you, what do you intend to to get out of it?
You know, a lot of the times I like to ask if it's a feature or not. A network you'd already sold. Going to a specific network is like, well, what is the end game for the movie? Because, you know, a lot of us want to work on movies, but you know, when they don't get finished, they don't get completed.
You can't put your work out there. And then it was some of your best work, you know.
Set Tacker So I always find like a good question. It's like, well, what's your end game for this? You know, where is the the viewership, where is what platforms are you looking to get into? And also as well as, you know, digging deep into the story.
So a little bit of both. I'd say. I haven't been interviewed in maybe two years, but I'm sure there'll be interviews committed. So digging deep into the story, like, what did you think when you read that first letter to any problem script? I know you shot those early videos and now that blew up into this most successful show in Canada.
Yeah, well, it's funny because I'm not Canadian, so I couldn't really understand the jokes at the time right. But I will say this delivery, the writing now that I get it, like the delivery, sorry, the acting, the writing, the delivery, and just the way we shot those first couple of episodes for you. YouTube. I just felt like they were so real.
Not that the show doesn't feel real anymore, but it's just so home grown. I think what they did was really like cultivate their home grown land. And I get that, you know, like, but it was funny, man. I'd be on set and I'm like thinking, what does that even mean? Like, I know, man, that's such a good sound.
But, you know, I was on set of the first Letterkenny shoot thinking, What does this mean? Well, they're, you know, the way they speak, I guess their their accents are very heavy. Right? So it's it's tough to understand some of those. And so was it pretty low budget at those first shoot? Yeah, we were pretty low.
Set Tacker What was Jared like? What was Jared Kesso the creator of Letterkenny, what was he like?
Andy I think we just showed up. I Mean he would just write things and we showed up to some form and we just, like, place them, you know, we'd find the truck, we'd place them on top of the truck. We find the pigs, we'd sit them down in front of the pigs. And our friend Terry Kim, Theo Kim was was directing them at the time.
I just thought they were they were great humor. Once they started getting the humour nice and nice.
Set Tacker And what do you have of all the things that you've done now of all? You've got so many pieces of work that you've done over 150 cards, I think is more like 180. Do you have a favorite one that kind of jumps to mind for you or a visual one, maybe just not your favorite, but something that comes up that you think is a great piece of work that comes up right now when you think about it?
Andy Yeah, absolutely. I think my own feature films, to be honest with you, you know, those are really home grown close to me, close to my business partners, you know, my first business partner, Road Woodland, and we've waited a long time to do a feature film so that would be one. And I would say the Whisper of Silence, which was developed by myself and my mom shot in El Salvador.
It was her story. So that was was really, really close to me and Brother I Cry, which is an indigenous feature talent to watch Telefilm funded, which again was very dear, close to me with my good friend and producer Jesse Anthony, an Indigenous director writer. So I kind of like working on social change, you know, things with the meaning.
Not, not that I'm not saying the network movies have those, but those sometimes are just a little bit more commercially. So, you know, it's kind of like talkie talkie. Here goes the hour. Yeah, everybody's happy in the end. So I'd say my own work. And then recently, my my short films that I've been kind of directing, I think those are very those are very me in a way of not having to speak out just to show you the images.
Yeah, it feels like a voice where some times I feel like we are looking at the world and everyone wants to talk about certain issues and politics that comes up for me. Every now and then. I get to feel like I get to speak a little bit through a piece of work if I'm involved in writing it or directing it.
Set Tacker Absolutely. So how do you handle situations? How do you handle situations when your work ends up on the cutting room floor? Is there a sense of disappointment?
Andy Again, I think it's a I think it's a an idea of like allowing in releasing. Right. Because, you know, the cutting room floor sometimes you're not even in the cutting room floor.
So I think, you know, I like to say I do one for them. I'll do one for me. Right. In order to keep it in order to keep the stability in the cutting room floor, it's like, do one for them, do one for me. So it's there's there's been times where absolutely you, you know, you just get left in the dust as a cinematographer and in the cutting room floor.
But I think that's why I create my own work, you know, nice. Do you have any story about a major learning lesson that you had earlier on in your career that helped you build a bit of a thicker skin? Because in film it's a very high pressure environment. Everybody can see the set and yeah, Tell me about something that went south when you were just early on.
I think earlier on I my first ten years at least in my career, yeah, I think it was mostly internal. Like I've always been a very chill cinematographer, producer on set, you know, handle very stressful situations very calmly. I think you need a good leader on set, whether you're the cinematographer, the producer. But I strongly feel that in my first like ten years, you know, it was very tough for me because I was comparing myself, comparing my work, you know, asking why I didn't land that job, why that person got that job.
And I was kind of questioning whether I was good enough. You know, which is kind of what artists do, I think. And it was really tough. It was really tough to to shed that. And, you know, I sort of had this epiphany of wake up and, you know, smell the coffee. And one day I just said, you know, I just gotta focus on myself, on the things that I want to do that my business partners want to do.
Like, you know, my mom has an idea here. I have ideas here. And I think once I allow that process of like focus within me, with inside me and just do what I wanted to do and it's okay that other people are doing better things. They're doing bigger budgets, are getting better cameras, whatever that is, to always kind of just hone it back home and be like, This is my work and I'm doing this because I love to do it and I do it for myself.
I think that was definitely another defining moment. And I woke up, Stop comparing myself, stop worrying about what other people were doing. And that's when my work started kind of being recognized. Yeah. Nice. Nice. My first day on a real set. It was a nonunion shoot, but it had about 70 people and somebody gave me the special effects atmosphere gun.
And I just went they rolled camera, I hit the gun and the entire you couldn't see anything in the monitors. The cast was coughing and then they took it away from me. And everybody saw, obviously, and that was my first day. And I was I just felt so terrible about that.
Set Tacker Do you have any story that you can tell?
Andy not directly. As a cinematographer, producer, I mean, I have a story when we were producing woodland that our director broke his ankle three days into filming, and then he never went to the hospital and he hobbled for 15 days on a broken ankle directing the movie, which we thought we had to. Yeah, I mean, three days in, your director breaks his ankle and you're like, Oh, we got to stop shooting.
But, but he definitely battled through. But I do have a story. When I joined the union and I was the only grouping I had, he was some really high pressure moment. I remember what job it was at the time, but I was pushing the buggy and we were running out of time and the focus puller couldn't get the focus.
And then they're looking at me because I'm going to slow. Then they're telling me to speed up. And then I did miss my mark and I flew the the dolly off the track and like the operator went flying and yeah. And I think for me that was a big learning curve because I was like, okay, regardless on who is yelling at you or who stunt you go faster.
Like you need to focus, right? And you know it. Like you said, it's a very high pressured environment. But in my own sets, even just a cinematic crew for a producer, you know, I like to keep it very chilled. I like to play music during set ups, you know, depending on the content. If it's not too heavy, you know, while people are setting up or at lunchtime or, you know, just make it a bit more of a friendly atmosphere, we don't have to be so, you know, stiff.
Yeah, there's a tense, there's a tension. But a lot of when I worked on bigger and bigger shows, I see that sometimes that goes away and people are able to make jokes about it when it's even when it's going wrong. As long as no one's getting hurt. It's like, this is a movie. It's not it's not brain surgery, I guess.
Set Tacker And regarding personalities in the departments of, say, cinematography, for example, do you think you have to be really tough to be a camera operator and move up? To be a cinematographer?
Andy You have to. Do some people not have that ability to handle when others are losing their temper? That's a good question. And I didn't come up through the camera department.
I actually came up through the great department. And I'll say this because one of them in one of my mentors said, Andy, why would you want to go serve some camera operator coffee for ten years and then you'll be promoted where you could go grip, learn about lighting, shaping, adding, directing, taking away, balancing, softening. And I was like, You know what? You're right. So I had joined the department, but through the people that I do hire my CS and second CS, people that have worked in the union or in the bigger shows, you know, it's it takes time. It takes time. I mean, you're going to be a trainee for a couple of years and then you'll probably be a second for a couple of years.
And then like that you might block out and get to first thing and then eventually to camp three, maybe 15 years down the line. And then if somehow, you know, the showrunner or the DP or somebody ends up, you know, knowing your work or that you just been on that show that long and you get promoted up. So for me was sort of like I had already started shooting and then I had joined as a grip, realized what the union was all about.
And then I was like, okay, I need to just face this out of my life. But there is times where, yeah, there's still some friends of mine that are, you know, still first thing and they've wanted to operate. And what I tell them, it's like if you just want to operate, go shoot your own projects. Go shoot your own projects because you know, it's, it's, it's tough.
Not everybody can just jump off a ten month show and go do any stuff. It's really tough to survive as an indie filmmaker, right, if you're not well rounded. So a lot of the guys, they just stay on these shows for years and years, right? And then they're like, Oh, I wanted to make that short film like five years ago.
But I've been, you know, Supernatural took, you know, three. I did six seasons of Supernatural and now it's like four years later and I never did it, you know. So I think it's good in terms of like stability, but sometimes that other side of the world is not very good if you're a technician trying to be creative. Yeah, to make your own short films is not easy to start getting people to join in and sign on.
Now, I was a little more used to it because when I was still a snowboarder, I thought that was my career. We were filming and we required a guy to drive the car. We required somebody to bring some lights. We had a camera operator and I would be performing the tricks. So there is already a team there. But for a lot of people it's difficult just to get a short film made because you're not used to getting ten people.
You have to be a salesman in a sense. Pretty much, absolutely. And you got to get people behind the story. I think that's that's a big one, too, right? Like, so depending on what how good your story is, I think people will rally. And again, it's good to work in the industry. I don't I'm not saying just go completely in the you know like I did it for a couple of years and I still kind of keep, you know, a foot in there.
I still know guys who are in the unions, still doing things, saying hi, you know, funny story. Actually, I got I remember a gaffer. He he does the bigger shows and I was gripping at the time and we kind of became friends and he was like, Yeah, man, I hope one day, you know, like you blow up and I get to gaffer you.
And then last year I did a mystery Hallmark movie and he was my gaffer. There you go. And I was like, Man, this is so cool. Like 15 years later, I can finally say, I got the budgets to hire these guys. And they're like, you know, they're bringing their trucks and yeah, even like, yeah, I mean, I remember a, a gentleman who I grew up with, I think it was 2012, and we did a show for four months and he was like, Dude, I think one day you're going to, you're going to make it.
And I'm like, If I do and you're going to be my key grip. And I hired him and those guys that Dina Boyd and Rory Sutherland, I finally got to hire those guys. Man, it's so cool to like, see them still in the game, but also like that, you can be like, Hey, come, let's do my show. And, you know, they knew me from when I was just grinding out and just little pop.
Set Tacker So would you say to people starting off like the number one thing, if you're trying to get a short film or a feature film made, number one thing you need to think about is the story?
Andy I think it's story, man. Yeah, I think it's story because which story you are going to gather people that connect with that story.
So, you know, whether it's an immigrant story, whether it's a personal story, whether it's a hardship story, or whether it's a story or fantasy, right? You find the click and you kind of click with that. I think for me personally, you know, my business partner has him in. I went to film school together and I think him and I really align with like my stories that I wanted his stories.
So I think it really just starts with those stories. And now once your build your team and you build, you know, people want to jump on your stuff. So, you know, after I made my first short, I didn't really tell anybody I was directing. I just sort of did it. And then people were like, Well, you're directing. I'm like, I want to work at everything you do, right?
And that's just because I had been building so much, right? So I think definitely the story is everything. Like the story is Guy the gather your crew's going to gather your, you know, your actors want to act in it or directors, and your story can also potentially get it funded because if the you know, you go through a platform or you find an investor and they love that story, they're probably going to put some money into it.
So, yeah, absolutely. Focus on the story first.
Set Tacker Well, thank you so much for agreeing to do the interview. And I'm just inspired by your career, your success it is great to meet you. As mentioned, I've known about you in town for a little while and I'm so glad that you were able to take the time to talk to me.