Ante Dekovic
Ante Dekovic is an Emmy-winning VFX supervisor, born in Croatia. Today we are sitting down with him to get his behind-the-scenes insights on how great movies are made. We will discuss how his career started as a kid, making skate videos, and progressed all the way to working with Hollywood's biggest TV shows like Star Trek, True Detective, and Shadow and Bone.
This interview was brought to you by Set Tracker, a mobile app designed by filmmakers for use on high-level film and TV shows. Our mission at Set Tracker is to support the film industry and shine a light on talented people who work behind the scenes.
Transcript below.
KYLE: "Thank you, Ante, for joining me. Did you imagine your career would get you to this place when you started? Now that you are one of the top VFX supervisors?"
ANTE: No, not at all. I mean, thinking back, like when I first started, it was in skateboarding. I started doing some skate videos with my buddies. And then I really got a passion for editing and a little bit of directing. So I was more going in that direction. And then I was working for a company, and I got introduced randomly to visual effects, and I kind of fell in love right away. Because you can do so many cool things. It's like being a magician in a way that you can do so much cool stuff with it. Then when I first started visual effects, I had no idea what it is, and now, 20 plus years later, here we are. It's been a great run.
KYLE: "Your mother was a lawyer, and dad worked in media. So when other kids were getting toy trucks, you were getting a computer and a camcorder?"
ANTE: That’s right. My dad didn't just provide the tools. He also would tell me how to do things better rather than just being like, “Oh, this is great. You did a great job.” I feel like he pushed me further in my career to always not get mad at criticism but just take it in a way to be like, okay, I can push myself too. And that is what we all want to do: deliver a great project.
KYLE: "How do you encourage the people that work with you when you're collaborating to create a certain effect or a certain scene? And what are the techniques that you do to talk about the vision and communicate that to all the different artists?”
ANTE: Well, I think it starts talking to the showrunners. It starts by talking to the directors and to the writers and to everybody involved. As a VFX supervisor, you're in the middle, so you have to make the connection between the showrunners and the directors and the artists. You’re like the middleman who tries to communicate both ways. Obviously, when you have a great team like Eric Heisserer (writer of Arrival) and they give you creative freedom, it's the best because you can talk to them and pitch them ideas on what you think would be cool. And the more you can pitch them, the more invested you get, the better it becomes. In doing so, you become a big part of it, rather than just like pushing buttons, “Oh, he wants it blue or green or whatever.” I think that's the biggest motivation.
KYLE: "Are there any tips that you have on how you could pitch any of the things that you pitch, whether it's a creature concept or a stunts proposal? Can you walk us through that process about how you formulate a pitch to a showrunner?"
ANTE: I guess it starts with building a connection with the showrunner. Luckily, with Eric and Daegon (Showrunners from Shadow and Bone), I hit it off right away. Like we were all on the same page, which is not always the case. I mean, on Star Trek, we had the same luck with Alex Kurtzman. But I worked on other shows where the showrunners have such a unique idea and they kind of sheltered it, which makes things a little bit harder. But I would say it starts with understanding what the showrunner wants and figuring out what direction they want to go. And at the beginning, it is always a little bit of hit and miss, and you kind of feel it out. You start slowly, respectfully, with a few ideas. I mean, I remember at the beginning of Shadow and Bone, before I even met Eric and Lee and just kind of briefly met Daegon, I would email them and it would be, “Hey, I would like to think we could do it this way. However, I don't want to say something that might not be in our universe, and I don't want to do anything wrong because it's Season Two, and I just joined.” And then they would reply, and we got the feel for it. So I like to get to know people. Some other people just go and pitch and then it works out or it doesn’t. But I like to go slowly, and then once we figure it out, it's just back and forth, and you get more creative. Sometimes I pitched some ideas that were too wild, and they're like, “Yeah, we don't like it” or they don't say it, “We don't like it.” Instead, they would say, “I think it should be this way.” And then you just also have to understand when you pitch it once, maybe pitch it twice, but then after that, you kind of let it go because it's their vision, it's their show. So you accept what it is. And I think that's the key to success is being respectful and also try to get your ideas out but also understand what direction they need to go.
KYLE: "So maybe if I'm accurately reviewing what you said, you start by trying to get a little bit of a personal feel for the person before you're pitching, and then you go a little bit slower with ideas and really ask them for feedback? You ask what they're looking for, then when you start pitching, usually you're building a relationship, and it becomes easier?"
ANTE: Absolutely. Yeah. That's how it goes. I mean, it's all working with people. It's all people and personalities and whatnot. So I think that's true for any department. Being a people person, right? So understanding how people work.
KYLE: "Ante, you own a skateboard company. And do you continue to get out on your skateboard as much you can?"
ANTE: I've been skating since I'm 14, so that would make it like over 25 years of skateboarding. I'm still doing it actively as much as I can, even if it gets harder on the body. But, you know, when I grew up, there was a skate shop in Germany and just loved it. I worked part-time when I was a kid at the skate shop, and it was the place to go. And we would always meet there and then do our skate session. So after when they closed, there was a big gap for a while. And, you know, me and my buddy, we want to give it back to the community, give it back to skateboarding. And, you're not going to get rich with skateboarding these days, especially if you have a skate shop. But, it's nice to have a store where kids can hang out, watch a skate video, and get the latest news and whatnot. And that's why we decided to do it.
KYLE: "Yeah, that's something that I think is amazing of you, that you have a connection to your past and your identity as a skater and I know that was something that we connected on."
KYLE: "I mentioned before how film requires so many people. And do you have any trial and error experiences where you tried to implement a creative solution and something didn't work out and you have to change on the fly on-set perhaps? Or is there any a situation where something that you guys went for ended up on the cutting room floor, and it was kind of disappointing?"
ANTE: Happens all the time. Both things like that are a lot of times where, you know, like I mean, no matter how good you prep things, there's always something, right? There's always something on the day. It doesn't necessarily have to be visual effects. It could be any other department that needs our help that, you know, last minute, they're like, “Hey, special effects couldn't figure it out. Can you guys do it?” Or Look, we tried to have one wire, but it ended up being two or three wires. Can you guys paint them out? So I feel like that's a daily thing. And you can't always plan exactly how it will be on set. So you have to be flexible to a certain degree; obviously, we also have to be budget-conscious so you can't just be like, “we’ll do anything.” But you have a feel for helping, and you build those relationships with other departments so you know they hook you up, you hook them up. And as far as like ideas, I mean, it happens all the time. Like you have some great shot and then you want you really want to bring it in. Like I had it on Star Trek several times where we were like, “Oh, man, we want to bring the shot in, and it's going to be so cool and epic.” And then, you know, it's like they have to cut something or that they're like, “Look, we can't afford that shot it is too expensive.” So then you have to get rid of it. And I feel you try your best and sometimes there's things that work out and then sometimes they don't work out and that's how it is.
KYLE: "Do you think you have a thick skin? Do the people you work with have a thick skin? I just have a funny story from when I first started in film, my first day on a real set, I had just got out of film school and they gave me one of the smoke guns and I went crazy on the smoke gun and the shot was completely wiped out. Everybody was coughing on set. The actors, you could not even see them through the camera. And somebody took the gun away from me and I was so embarrassed. But it was a really lighthearted story. Is there any story like that comes to mind?"
ANTE: Yeah, I mean, I mean, look, the longer you do it, the better you can handle things. I used to get angry and take things personally all the time. And then, I get better, like Season Two of Sleepy Hollow. My first day being back on that set. And I remember, we were supposed to shoot some clean plates, and it was already like 3 a.m., and everybody wanted to go home, right? So the First Assistant Director was like that's a wrap. And I'm saying “wait we need that clean plate.” And they are tired and upset because that was my first day on set. And they're like, who is this guy? And I was terrified. I was so devastated. I'm like, Oh my God, they're going to hate me. But luckily, you learn that it's part of film, and you know, after a while, there's not much that can stress me out or get me out of balance.
KYLE: "You build that skin in high-pressure work environments, whether it's film or other jobs. But I think film is definitely a high-pressure work environment because everybody is watching the set. Everybody can see what's happening. So regarding personalities in VFX, do you think that there are individuals who don't move up because they don't have that kind of grit and toughness? They end up not being able to progress and become higher in the food chain on the VFX team."
ANTE: I think it's the personality thing for sure because if you think about it, you know, like as a VFX artist, you work in a room full of other artists, right? You are all in the same world. And I experienced that when I left being on the vendor’s side and moved onto being a supervisor, I feel like some supervisors don't move up because it can also get really stressful. You know, when you are on set things happen all of a sudden. First, you wait, you wait, you wait, and then VFX is up, and then something goes wrong, and you have to come with a solution in a few seconds. It might cost you a lot of money later in post, and then you have to stand behind it, and later on, if that doesn't work. And then you have to ask the studio for more money, and it gets tricky. So I feel like the stress level, it's different on set. It's a different stress level. You wait and then do something and then wait and then do something and have to come up with those solutions and sell the ideas to people. You have to be able to talk to the DP and say, “Hey, I need this.” As you said, not every artist can just move up and be a VFX supervisor or set supervisor.
KYLE: "And the VFX vendors you mentioned just now. What is it like in the landscape of the VFX vendors? Are there companies that are just on top, and they've been that way for ten years?"
ANTE: Yeah, I mean, after COVID, I guess what happened is like there was a bigger demand for visual effects, so all of a sudden there was way, way too many VFX companies with not necessarily the best artists just because all of a sudden everybody was in demand. So, and then that kind of like leveled out during the strike. And even after that. So I remember like, you know, while on Star Trek during COVID, we could get the best vendors for a cheaper rate versus after COVID, the prices went 30 - 40% up. Right? So, yeah, it's like there's a lot of visual effects companies, and I think also with the technology being easier. Anybody can do stuff on your iPhone these days, right? So I feel like people have more access to it, but then also it gets a little bit where the quality suffers, in my opinion. Right? You have to know which vendor you want to use, and that's where you build the relationships over the years. You build for the love of working with these guys. And you get to know them.
KYLE: "I guess I should not ask you if you've seen a major movie that had some bad visual effects? That's probably not politically correct?”
ANTE “Yeah, I don't know… I mean, obviously there is. And but to be fair, it's not always bad companies working on these a lot of times has to do with time and money. Right? I'm I mean look, I delivered some visual effects that I wasn't 100% happy with because we just run out of time or money in the past. So I understand that. Obviously, you know, obviously when you watch it, especially the visual effects artists, you tend to judge it a little bit harsher than the rest of the world. But then, you know, like then I like to look at the credits and see who did it. And, then I'm like, okay, if it's somebody I know, they’re actually really good at it and must be something else.
KYLE “Are you competitive with the other VFX supervisors out there? Does anyone motivate you a lot?
ANTE “ I don't think I'm competitive. If anything I like to see people that I'm friends get better than me, you know, in a sense we grew up working together. Like, there's so much work out there that I'm never like, oh my God, why did you get the job? I'm happy with the show I got. Sometimes I got that show because somebody else bailed on a show. And I'm like, Good for me, right? And then it works. It works the other way around. I'm not that competitive. I'm not. But when it comes to the Emmys and awards, obviously you're like, why didn't they get it? Why did I get the Emmy? Why did those guys not get the Emmy? You know, or why did they get nominated? But it's just like a lot of things. It's popularity and politics. So it's okay.
KYLE “And when you're looking over the hdge of what's coming next for you, is there any anything big that you're thinking about that you have for your own goals?
ANTE “I want to move up to do features a little bit because I've been doing TV for so long now and you know, like with all the Emmy nominations and, and the Emmy win. I feel like I want to I want to progress and get to somewhere else. I mean, people are always like, well, don't you want to do something big as a mandalorian ? I'm like, Yeah, but it's also that I've done big shows and I feel like it gets to a point where things get a little bit like, repetitive. So that's why I kind of want to like go to do features for a bit just because it's different pace. And then and then who knows, maybe I can't go go back to TV and big show comes up and I might do that.
KYLE Well, thank you. And thanks for taking the time to do this interview. It was fantastic.